Tuesday, May 17, 2005

اسماء کی ای میل بابت بن مانس یا آدمی ۔ اور اس کا جواب

میرا ارادہ تھا کہ اس کھاتہ کو اردو ہی میں رکھوں گا مگر ایک تو اسماء نے انگریزی لکھ بھیجی دوسرے میرا جواب ذرا لمبا ہو گیا اور میری اردو لکھنے کی رفتار ابھی بہت سست ہے دیگر میں نے محسوس کیا ہے کہ بہت سے اردو بلاگ رکھنے والے اور پڑھنے والے صحیح طرح اردو نہیں جانتے۔ چنانچہ جواب بھی انگریزی میں لکھ دیا۔ اصول کی خلاف ورزی پر معذرت خواہ ہوں۔ Assalamo alaykum w.w.! Well, as far as comment to ur post about evolution is concerned, i would surely give a detailed answer as my papers would end on 27th :) Well, i was just wondering do u have any Ahmadi in ur social circle? If yes, then U can ask him for a book "Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth" By: Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad. If you can borrow this book, i'm sure u'll be greatly delighted to read the book. Wassalam & Take care Allah Hafiz ASMA My Reply Thank you for your e-mail and your nice guidance on recommending a book. By chance I have already read (not the recommended book but) many books that describe views of people who call themselves Ahmedia. The first discussion I had about it was in 1955 with a student who was Ahmedia. In my young age (including college life), I have been writing articles effectively refuting false claims of the so-called Ahmedia community. You must be knowing the name of Roshan Din Tanvir who remained editor of Al-Fazal the news paper of your community. I lived for a month with his one son and three daughters at 3-Maclagen Road, Lahore in 1953 or so. In those days Roshan Din Tanvir was at Rabwah. The adjoining apartment was office of Al-Fazal and library. I had access to the library. So I am one of the very few Muslims in Pakistan who were lucky to have that opportunity. There-after Allah was kind to provide me chance to know more about beliefs of followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed through my Ahmedia friends at Engineering College, Lahore. From that study: I know that your community does not believe that Hazrat Adam, AS, was the first human being but only the first Nabi saying that humans were already there. Also, your community does not believe that Hazrat Eisa, AS, was lifted to heavens but believes that he died and is buried some-where in Kashmir. I also know something that you may not be knowing that nearly all the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed signed a memorandum and sent that to Ruler of Great Britain in early 1947 which stated that followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed were not of the same belief as followers of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as such should be counted as separate community and Qadian (Gurdaspur) should be given to them like Vatican City. This effort resulted in changing of demarcation line of India and Pakistan, and Gurdaspur was given to India because subtracting the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed from the Muslims and adding them to non-Muslims, Muslim majority of Gurdaspur became marginal and eased British Rulers hands to favour Jawahar Lal Nehru who was supported by wife of Viceroy, Lord Mount Batten. This clever action of followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed proved cancerous for Pakistan in the form of Jammu & Kashmir dispute. Quaid-i-Azam was fully confident that state Jammu & Kashmir will even geographically be part of Pakistan because it would be surrounded by Pakistan territory. It was a shock to every Muslim of India when a few days after 14th August, 1947, Redcliff award (of partition) was announced and that showed Gurdaspur (a Muslim Majority area) in India. The result was that India entered her armed forces in to Jammu & Kashmir through Gurdaspur. Having done all this, I fail to understand, why followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed came over to Pakistan and what their leaders Tahir and the next have been doing sitting in London, something like Altaf Hussain?

5 Comments:

At 5/17/2005 11:05:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

very well said uncle ajmal. the british wanted to introduce a new religion here in sub-continent but they found that it is very difficult to convert muslims and hindus (which were pre-heated by Britians) to their new religion. They found that Muslims are very FOND of accepting and creating new sects so Mirza sahib was introduced he soon got popularity. The main 'cause' of this community was to oppose a separate country (simply to work agains Pakistan).

I dont understand these people read quran and don't understand it..
ooops im sorry i cant show my name here cuz i got many ahmadi friends and they really do listen to me when i talk abt islam.. i dont want to create misunderstanding between us.

 
At 5/17/2005 02:11:00 PM, Blogger iabhopal said...

On the anonymous comment:
پہلے دو شعر۔ پہلا علامہ اقبال کا ہے اور دوسرا میں نے علامہ کے شعر میں ترمیم کر کے بنایا تھا جب میں نویں یا دسویں جماعت میں پڑھتا تھا۔
گرچہ بت ہیں جماعت کی آستینوں میں ۔۔۔ مجھے ہے حکم اذاں لا الہ الاللہ
یقین محکم عمل پیہم پائے راسخ چاہیئں ۔۔۔ استقامت دل میں ہو۔ لب پر خدا کا نام ہو
میں نے ان اشعار پر عمل کرنے کی حتہ الوسع کوشش کی اور اللہ سبحانہ و تعالی نے نہ صرف مجھے اس میں کامیابی دی بلکہ میری حفاظت بھی کی۔ میری سمجھ میں نہیں آتا کہ آج کے مسلمان۔ خال‍ق (اللہ) کی نسبت مخلوق (انسانوں) سے کیوں زیادہ ڈرتے ہیں۔
جہاں تک مرزا غلام احمد کا تعلق ہے وہ ایک سادہ اور غریب دیہاتی اور ایک کم علم امام مسجد کا بیٹا تھا۔ آسائش اور تعلیم کے لالچ میں قابو آ گیا۔ نہ وہ ذہین تھا اور نہ اتنی استداد اس میں تھی۔ یہ ساری شعبدہ بازی ایک شخص نورالدین کی تھی جو کہ حکومت برطانیہ کا چیلا اور وظیفہ خوار تھا۔

 
At 5/17/2005 11:26:00 PM, Blogger Nabeel said...

I have no idea how this discussion got started and I sincerely hope that it does not stray too far off the topic and poison the wonderful atmosphere of the (Urdu) blogging community. It will not be fair to ask everybody to refrain from expressing their religious views since religion is after all an important part of our lives. It is just that I have seen too many munziras in my life and I know their futility.


اجمل صاحب، احمدیت کے بارے میں میرا علم آپ کے مقابلے میں بہت محدود ہے۔ میں نے اس سلسلے میں محض مولوی اللہ وسایہ کی کتاب پارلیمنٹ میں قادیانی شکست پڑھی ہے۔ آپ جانتے ہی ہوں گے کہ اس کتاب میں اس مقدمے کی تفصیل ہے جس میں احمدیوں کو غیر مسلم قرار دیا گیا۔ اس کتاب کی تفاصیل کے مطابق مرزا غلام احمد اپنے زمانے کا بلند پایہ عالم تھا۔ اس کی اصل شہرت بحیثیت مناظر کے تھی۔ اس کی تصانیف میں براہین احمدیہ شامل ہیں۔

میں نے کبھی احمدی حضرات سے ان کے عقائد کے بارے میں الجھنے کی کوشش نہیں کی۔ کسی صاحب کی ایک بات نے مجھے ہمیشہ متاثر کیا ہے۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ وہ (احمدی) ایک جھوٹے نبی کے سچے پیروکار ہیں جبکہ تم (مسلمان) ایک سچے نبی کے جھوٹے پیروکار ہو۔

 
At 5/18/2005 01:13:00 AM, Blogger Asma said...

السلام و علیکم و رحمہ اللہ

Well, instead of commenting on the post itself I would priory comment on the comments part here.

To Mr. Anonymous : Please give me a break now; Ahmadiyyat was installed in the sub-continent by british … wow what a wonderful idea… If you have any knowledge, you know what we say that Hadhrat Eesa A.S was not raised on skies but he died after completing his life, not on cross.

This was the ahmadis in British times how fought with Christians and Christianity; not the muslim ullema [remember the role of ahraris].

یہ عجیب بات ہے کہ جس نے انگریزوں کے خدا ہی کو مار دیااور عیساییت کی بنیادوں پر حملے کیے، آپ اسے .انگریزوں کی کاشت کہہ رہے ہیں

And oppose a separate country and to work against Pakistan, so I would say plz for once u should think that u have to be answerable to Allah one day … and if u don’t know the truth or you don’t have such powers to find the truth yourself … U SHOULD REFRAIN URSELF FROM SAYING SUCH BIG WORDS, PLEASE.

Yes, we are against Pakistan, what if in the whole army there is only one example of a general being martyred, fighting in the fore forces … not sitting in luxury like his counterparts, and he was an AHMADI MUSLIM. What if the issue of Kashmir and Palestine was raised and was openly discussed in UN assembly for 8 long hours, and the nations were convinced, all Their questions being answered firmly, not by ur Arabian gods but by an Ahmadi Muslim, Chaudhry Muhammad Zafarullah Khan. And he all Arabs sitting in UN Assembly declared that no one could have presented the case of kashmiris and Palestinians better than Zafarullah Khan. Remember he was the first foreign minister appointed by Quaid e azam and how foolish was Muhammad Ali Jinnah to make a person who was against Pakistan, the first foreign minister of Pakistan.

When for Kashmir’s independence issues raised, it was the then imam of ahmadiyya jamaat, the first person, who formed a battalion for the jihad in Kashmir, he called for jihad for the first time. This is era of 48-49, when even against ahamdi newspapers were praising the voluntarily done wok by this Furqan Battalion.

And then if you say I’m against Pakistan, I’m turncoat, I’m a traitor then Alhamdolillah I’m a traitor. Shorash Kasmiri was very much against ahmadis, but then when he hears about Gen. Akhtar Hussain Malik, even he said then :

دہلی کی سر زمین نے پکارا ہے ساتھیوں ۔۔۔۔ اختر ملک کا ہاتھ بٹاتے چلو
گنگا کی وادیوں کو بتادو کہ ہم ہیں کون ۔۔۔۔ جمنا پہ ذوالفقار چلاتے ہوے چلو
(13TH SEPT- 65, “Chataan” Lahore)

When the war was on its peak, shorash sahib couldn’t see any other general, only an ahmadi son was there on whom his eyes looked upon. And now you say he was a traitor.

Abdul Ali malik was your hero, when Chawinda sector was in grave danger, he stood there comradely, his superiors were saying that get away from there but he stood there declaring that if I take mty oot out of here, Pakistani army would doom till rawalpindi sector. We won’t back evena n inch from here, Allah would give us victory here, and a world saw that Allah gave them victory there. And another maulana irfan rushdi of majlis ulmaye Pakistan writes in his book “Maa’arka e haq o batil”:

کر رہا تھا غازیوں کی جب کماں عبد العلی
تھا صفوں میں مثل طوفاں عبد العلی

What an awesome traitor he was.

And Anonymous said that “I dont understand these people read quran and don't understand it ” but I DO. Allah says in the second Chapter of Quran Al-Baqarah’ : صم بکم عمی فھم لا یرجعون
So, may Allah raise the veils on your eyes, mouths and ears!

And to uncle Ajmal, first think a lot, and I mean a lot about saying any words as you said in ur comment …. U don’t have any faith on him, it’s OK … but plz consider once again what u say or write against a person of such stature u know very well, I assume, that what high place we give him in our hearts, so I don’t know why it never occurred to you, that what if he is right and what if for these words I’m saying about him I would be answerable to Allah Almighty.

At least as a Muslim and furthermore an educated Muslim, I thought you would consider and respect my feelings and respect and love for the ahmadiyyat and would not try to hurt my feelings so badly.

And about that memorandum thing, you know it but by what source????? Ahmadis were never ever against the Pakistan’s building, as I mentioned some leading personalities above, we have always said LABAIK to the needs of Pakistan….! This is a foolish claim that ahmadis said that gurdaspur be made a separate entity, as ahmadis were not there in whole Gurdaspur but in a small village of Qadian. And even fools could say at that time that no separate entity could have been made. Ahmadis were never cancerous for Pakistan … these muslim ullema who want to become gods of Pakistan were! And this is the reason why you failed to understand that why ahamdis migrated to Pakistan! Because the claims you’ve made are wrong.

Cutting the whole thing short, I don’t know many of ‘All-knowing’ [naooz o billah!] Pakistanis are unaware of the laws being still in implementation present in Pakistan in 84’s amendments that ahmadis seen calling Allah o akbar, Kalima, or displaying; saying mosques to their mosques, calling themselves Muslims are liable to punishments of varieties. LA ILLAHA ILLAL LAHO MUHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH engraved on our mosques were overnight broken and stuck by muslims. I really don’t know that why the hearts and souls of those so-called true muslims didn’t felt anything when they stuck upon Allah’s name when their hammers stuck the Muhammad s.a.w.w’s name … wouldn’t their souls were shaken. Still many ahmadis are imprisoned because their hearts beat on LA ILLAHA ILLAL LAHO MUHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH!

And lastly, these would have appear to be stories to you maybe … because u couldn’t imagine these things being happening to people in an Islamic country, being punished for calling themselves muslims ; you are all living in eutopian world. Please come out of it.

At least be patient and show the tolerance being taught by our beloved Hadhrat Muhammad S.A.W.W towards others. And if you don’t know anything … despite your claims to know everything, at least have mercy on other’s feelings and emotions, prior to saying any harsh words.

Allah says in Quran:

الیس اللہ بکاف عبدہ

“Is Allah Not Enough For His Man?” Yes, he surely is enough for me and other ahmadi muslims. I won’t be commenting on this post again, as I’ve put all my matters to Allah now.


Wassalam & Allah Hafiz

p.s: Sorry if I was rude any where but it really hurts; I’ve said it only to clear a bit of your thoughts, OTHERWISE I DON’T HAVE TO PROVE ANY WHERE THE LOVE, AFFECTION, DEVOTION I HAVE FOR HADHRAT MUHAMMAD SAWW, ISLAM AND FOR PAKISTAN AS WELL. I’m only answerable for my doings to Allah Almighty, none-so-other. I'm closing my comment here in good health .... when i left my matters to Allah ... i don't live with bitterness in my heart.

p.s2: can u plz make the font of posts a bit big; i think so for this font size of : 150% is much readable!

 
At 5/18/2005 09:12:00 AM, Blogger iabhopal said...

I am sorry to have angered a person and that a young lady who nearly bursted. It is for the first time on internet, I have faced several such incidents face to face before, in one case posing danger to my life.

I want to tell the young lady if historians and journalists had been honest / truthful, this world would have been full of justice. In our country the condition is worse. Our writers welcome every ruler as saviour of Pakistan and when government stops giving Ads in their papers or they think that the ruler is on way out, they start cursing the same ruler. Was it not the journalists who wrote General Yahya as "Amir-ul-momineen" (was he even 1% worth that) and later they called him all bad names.

Chaudhary Zafarullah: For the information of young Lady, no foreign minister presents his personal policy. He is bound to present policy of his government and his speach is also prepared by the secretariat and approved by the head of the state.

If Ahmedia were against Israel, (1) why Ahmedia had their office in Israel ? May be even now have.

(2) What was Dr Abdus Salam, a famous physist (Ahmedia) doing in the power corridors of Israel when Qudrat Ullah Shahab visited that place as a representative of UNO ?

Mind, because Pakistan has not recognised Israel, no Pakistani can visit Israel. Qudrat Ullah Shab was smuggled in to Israel by UNO under fake identity.

There are two episodes of Zafaullah, (1) It was on his advice that Prime Minister, Liaquat Ali Khan agreed to cease-fire in Kashmir and doomed the people of Jammu & Kashmir. (2) It was due to Zafarullah, that many key positions in establishment got occupied by Ahmedia and then Pakistan is what it is. Z. A. Bhutto was elected due to fullest support of Ahmedia community. A directive was issued in this regard by their leader. However, Z. A. Bhutto never liked any other to be powerful, so when the Ahmedia Air Chief who was given extension in service by Butto himself, showed strength, he was retired and later, Ahmedia declared non-Mulim.

Regarding Brig Abdul Ali, the Commander at Sialkot Headquarter ( Perhaps Brig Ibrahim, also an Ahmedia) had ordered retreat from Chawinda sector. Brig Abdul Ali called the Company Commader and conveyed the orders of Headquarter. On way back, the Company Commander, God knows why, decided not to retreat. This betrayal of orders saved Chawinda and also Pakistan. That Company Commander was court-marshalled for disobeyance.

I do not know of any Pakistani General who died fighting because they stayed in peaceful cities during all the wars. The highest rank of Army Officer who died (martyred) in the field area was Brigadier Shami at Burki Sector (Lahore) during 1965 war.

Neither this blog is capable of holding the documentary proof that I have in support of what I wrote nor any reader would have patience to go through that. And then as earlier it will be refuted on no ground but wrist and voice force.

Let us stop this here. No more comments on Ahmedia. However, you are welcome to comment on Aadmi / Insaan / What Am I.

May Allah guide us to the right path. Aameen.

سنا ہو گا گھر کا بھیدی لنکا ڈھائے۔
So please do not provoke me.

 

Post a Comment

links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home